tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post318584332555996337..comments2024-03-18T03:26:46.125-04:00Comments on Evo and Proud: Suicide and Inuit youthPeter Frosthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04303172060029254340noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-64730925127368190882020-02-21T21:36:18.985-05:002020-02-21T21:36:18.985-05:00My theory is the "Theory of Hierarchy." ...My theory is the "Theory of Hierarchy." All humans (and perhaps all social species) need to figure out the "hierarchy" in its society, need to know where one stands, and need to work to climb up in that hierarchy. Global capitalism in which money is the only measure of one's standing in society has been forcibly imposed upon everyone. It destroys ALL hierarchies previously existed in society. On the other hand, the money hierarchy has nothing to do with social relations, which Mongoloid ethnic groups are naturally attuned to. <br /><br />For example, in the past, the Korean King decides where to put someone in the hierarchy. He may appoint ministers. He may fire them. The Koreans know one's position in the hierarchy. Nowadays, that hierarchy has been taken away and replaced with global capitalism. Some Koreans accept it. Some reject it. So, there is constant stress. Most are lost. They don't know where they stand. They don't know which values to uphold, resulting in high suicide rates. Soe Win Hannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-61405160653324606452011-12-17T11:47:58.293-05:002011-12-17T11:47:58.293-05:00Peter, I realize that a smart fraction is needed.
...Peter, I realize that a smart fraction is needed.<br /><br />My point was that selection can only work with what is available, and getting from the situation of the Inuit over the last several thousand years to one where they had independently invented "portable fusion technology" would be impossible given that the reproductive success associated with alternative strategies (ie, selection for suicide when an individual feels like they are a net negative on the group) would likely outweigh any selection for increased intelligence. This is especially so since increased intelligence (short of a mutation that greatly increases the efficiency of neural tissue) would require and increased brain size, leading to:<br /><br />1. Increased developmental costs,<br />2. Increased birthing issues,<br />3. Increased running costs (more energy required and more heat loss through the head).<br /><br />There is, obviously, even in societies/groups where high intelligence is a benefit, selection pressures in both directions because of the costs associated with increased brain size.Beyond Anonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-10005971620661112162011-12-15T15:36:03.148-05:002011-12-15T15:36:03.148-05:00Anon,
I would always prefer suffering to non-exis...Anon,<br /><br />I would always prefer suffering to non-existence, and most people seem to think likewise.<br /><br />For me, suicide is like alcoholism. I've been drunk and I know the feeling, but it's not a feeling I would actively seek. But other people feel differently.<br /><br />I've met young natives who calmly talk about how they've contemplated suicide, and the reasons seem insufficient, at least to me. Yes, I've suffered, but the thought of suicide has never crossed my mind, even at the height of suffering.<br /><br />Ben10,<br /><br />Why not emigrate to northern Canada, Argentina, or Siberia?<br /><br />Sean,<br /><br />Inuit men did (and still do) kill out of sexual jealousy. On the other hand, I've been told that traditional Inuit don't talk a lot about sex and that they see "southern" society as being oversexed.Peter Frostnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-29684243517831427192011-12-15T08:48:11.792-05:002011-12-15T08:48:11.792-05:00Suicide is actually common among several hunter ga...Suicide is actually common among several hunter gatherers, but surprisingly not in Africa, only among the "Out of Africa Tribe" descendants, according to this paper:<br /><br />The society of our "out of Africa" ancestors (I): The migrant warriors that colonized the world.<br />Moreno E.<br />Commun Integr Biol. 2011 Mar;4(2):163-70.<br /><br />Intriguing behaviour...Orang Morehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02873255352836470611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-35696983717516910702011-12-14T12:19:25.740-05:002011-12-14T12:19:25.740-05:00On second thoughts environment is an indirect dete...On second thoughts environment is an indirect determinant of the personalty selected for because a man can survive and still father no children. "<a href="http://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2010/11/extraversion-tool-for-mating-success.html" rel="nofollow">Extraversion is part of the male toolkit for mating success.</a>. It is especially useful in societies where a high incidence of polygyny means too many men must compete for too few women."<br /><br />For the historical Inuit <i>men</i> status would have been based on being a good provider (necessary for having a family) rather that pecking order in male-male rivalry. So it makes sense that they would feel particularly bad in circumstances where they're surviving without the 'provider' role. If this is true Inuit women would have a rather different attitude to suicide. <br /><br />There was some rivalry among Inuit men according to Carlton Coon in "The History of Man". He says that Inuit men did kill one another on occasion and it was not uncommon that some men couldn't visit certain districts for fear of a revenge attack.<br /><br />But that could be over hunting grounds ect.Seannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-58830916205361236702011-12-14T09:48:48.460-05:002011-12-14T09:48:48.460-05:00...but your remark makes sense Sean.
If there are ......but your remark makes sense Sean.<br />If there are so many unhappy people now, Inuits or whatever, it might be because in the past their kind (introvert and carefull) was positively in a dangerous environment.<br />It's just that when the times were hard because of warfare or starvation, carefull and introvert people didn't have time to think about suicide.Ben10noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-43761267237663666402011-12-14T09:39:50.361-05:002011-12-14T09:39:50.361-05:00WE are not in a dangerous environment anymore, i.e...WE are not in a dangerous environment anymore, i.e, the american wild west, Australia in the XVIII century, the early colonisation of Africa...<br />What can do the unhappy Inuits or Europeans?Ben10noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-37942307583564901692011-12-13T15:57:03.222-05:002011-12-13T15:57:03.222-05:00"There 'should' be a strong selective...<b>"There 'should' be a strong selective advantage for people who are naturally optimistic, extravert"</b> <br /><br />By my way of thinking In a extremely dangerous environment there would be selection for being careful and cautious - not for being sanguine.seannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-25586462556443919892011-12-13T09:44:58.501-05:002011-12-13T09:44:58.501-05:00Despite their material abundance, people of europe...Despite their material abundance, people of european ancestry have no much better feelings than Inuits.<br />If you don't feel right in your environment, there is no new world to travel and settle with hard work, nothing you can do or build, everything has been explored or is under the rule of a state or a private interest. You can't move to America, you can' t decide to leave your city and build your own wood house in the middle of the next forest or state park and clear the woods to grow your own food. There is absolutely no escape door anymore for Inuits, Chineses or Whites and if you are unhappy in your situation, you will stay like that: depressed, unhappy, violent or suicidal.<br /><br />-----> There 'should' be a strong selective advantage for people who are naturaly optimistic, extravertite, easy going and who can enjoy life even in the poorrest conditions under the harshesh dictatorship, or under the richest material conditions with absolutely nothing to do. Happy slaves: this will be the dream citizenry in the New World Order. <br />So, do 'happy' people of all races have more kids? probably so. Everything goes for the best in our Brave New World, which depresses me even more.Ben10noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-26228700879240541532011-12-12T19:52:26.856-05:002011-12-12T19:52:26.856-05:00"Such ideation may seem irrational from an in..."Such ideation may seem irrational from an individualistic Western standpoint. You cannot make your life better by ending it."<br /><br />This is nonsense. Of course you can: You can replace a future period of potential suffering with unconsciousness.<br /><br />Suicide options should be available for everyone. Suicide should be easy and painless, but there should be a delay period to get people to think it through.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-23593694407153088702011-12-12T08:09:41.299-05:002011-12-12T08:09:41.299-05:00Beyond Anon,
Development of advanced technology i...Beyond Anon,<br /><br />Development of advanced technology is more than just a matter of mean IQ (which is reasonably high among the Inuit). You need a "smart fraction," and for that you also need a relatively large population.<br /><br />Sean,<br /><br />Edlerly suicide was common in the past, but it was never declared to the public authorities. Understandable, since it was (and still is) a criminal offence to assist suicide.<br /><br />It's an overstatement to say that the sedentarization of the Inuit was done forcibly. There were many cases of Inuit voluntarily migrating to the new settlements. It was a bad policy, and more could have been done to keep the Inuit on the land, but we shouldn't kid ourselves. Most Inuit today prefer sedentary living.Peter Frostnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-11934771256265691572011-12-10T15:59:51.918-05:002011-12-10T15:59:51.918-05:00Suicide was very rare among Inuit before the gener...Suicide was very rare among Inuit before the generation that grew up in settlements according to <a href="http://iocc.ca/documents/2008-01-07_InuitSuicideRates.pdf" rel="nofollow">THIS</a>Seannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-60950910088317744612011-12-10T13:15:59.078-05:002011-12-10T13:15:59.078-05:00Selection is, in reality, an outcome based process...Selection is, in reality, an outcome based process.<br /><br />While it might have been better is the Inuit had evolved super intelligence so they could develop portable fusion technology and thus been able to keep their old folk warm and useful tending the portable fusion generators and passing on knowledge etc, in reality, those groups that did not have to expend inordinate amounts of resources in keeping old folks alive would have left more offspring, and thus the old folks who committed suicide would have had more of their genes present in the population over the longer term.<br /><br />Of course, the fastest route for selection to work on was not developing super intelligence so that the old folk could reason their way to a conclusion that they should off themselves. Rather, those who had a propensity to give up in seemingly hopeless circumstances would boost the survival of their genes if they already had offspring or they were strongly related to the group.Beyond Anonnoreply@blogger.com