tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post5406928203057224868..comments2024-03-18T03:26:46.125-04:00Comments on Evo and Proud: South Korea abolishes itselfPeter Frosthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04303172060029254340noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-57503544378955271352015-09-13T15:20:22.383-04:002015-09-13T15:20:22.383-04:00south korea isn't opening up. it's main in...south korea isn't opening up. it's main increase in foreign population is related to aborting female fetuses for the last thirty years, creating a shortage of women almost to he level of China. It took many decades of U.S. largess to build-up Korea through the Chaebol strategy (we knew there was no way for a country to industrialize during the late 20th centurey, so we fostered large conglomerates to compete on an international level), and most koreans are one generation from peasant life. <br /><br />Foreigners aren't allowed into korea without strict visa and health codes. Beyond military and english teaching, you wont find any Caucasian people there, as there is no foreign investment and Korean firms will not hire outsiders. Even with fluency, credentials and citizenship, you will not find work. A friend took the Korean bar exam several times, never getting a response because he was obviously American. Even dating local women is diffiuclt. The E1 visa (English teacher) no requires an in-person consulate interview, a vigorous health check, several criminal record checks. This conjoined with annual "foreign man teacher bad documentaries," it is obvious Korea will not have foreigners soon.<br />The large third-world Muslim/Hindu population you cite only reinforces my point:<br /><br />A. large arab populations working in the black economy with illegal or fradulently acquired visas in self-created, psuedo-criminal industries. <br /><br />B. Foreign workers being abused by unscrupulous Korean employers.<br /><br />Demographic suicide, through mass immigration to replace increasingly impoverished native peoples, to shore up GDP, at the expense of a smaller per capita GDP, is strictly a Western perogative. It is not a 'value' by any of the population, but an elite project.<br /><br />Asian media is owned by their respective nationalities and the Red Scare never had as much efficiency. The rump 'leftism' of identity politics was never able to become dominant in a left-vacuum as in what was once termed the Anglo-Saxon countries. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-78709547537061279532011-10-15T14:47:58.867-04:002011-10-15T14:47:58.867-04:00Korea i 2/6 Christian and wholly Ameri-centric.
i...Korea i 2/6 Christian and wholly Ameri-centric.<br /><br />if there's a society on Earth more Americanized (Canada doesn't count, neither the UK, Australia or NZ - they all come from the same source anyway and they should be very similar), then I don't know of it.<br /><br />Culturally, Korea is an American colony. Ideologically, it's almost wholly North America. its entire education system is fuelled by American identity.<br /><br />it's just how it is.Gorbachevnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-15026756614882736942011-10-14T16:09:14.811-04:002011-10-14T16:09:14.811-04:00Hmmm, South Korea is at least 1/3rd Christian now,...Hmmm, South Korea is at least 1/3rd Christian now, it is a very worrying sign of unkoreanization. At the same time, Japan remains massively buddhist/shinto.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-64284906719298356632011-10-01T16:53:48.476-04:002011-10-01T16:53:48.476-04:00There have also been some Western activists and gr...There have also been some Western activists and groups in Korea trying to liberalize it:<br /><br />http://populargusts.blogspot.com/2011/10/constitutional-court-rules-on-vandom.html<br /><br />The "Wagner" referenced in Peter Frost's original post above is an American law professor in Korea who has been promoting the liberalization of citizenship and immigration laws, including HIV testing of foreigners, restrictions on HIV positive foreigners from entering or immigrating, etc.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-54190197688527706882011-10-01T12:27:58.915-04:002011-10-01T12:27:58.915-04:00Unification is the obvious solution to low birth r...Unification is the obvious solution to low birth rate. Improving the standard of living of the north koreans will generate a lot more korean children.William H Jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-18486705095035204402011-10-01T10:08:30.147-04:002011-10-01T10:08:30.147-04:00I'll admit encouraging immigration is a long t...I'll admit encouraging immigration is a long term strategy for increasing potential power (ie the size of the economy and population) and maybe not a motive.<br /><br />A rethink: You're basically right but the military angle is important for why the Koreans pay so much attention to America. The special situation that South Korea is in (which you yourself have adumbrated) makes it likely that the correlation of forces in Korea has something to do with it. Else how explain why S. Korea and not Japan ?<br /><br />The South requires the continued military support of the US to minimize the chance of a North Korean attack. The South Korean leadership are no doubt extremely concerned to have that continued military support made clear to the North Koreans at all times. Many people think that "Acheson's speech on January 12, 1950, before the National Press Club not mentioning the Korea Peninsula as part of the all-important "defense perimeter" of the United States made Pyongyang read the runes as very favourable for an invasion of the South.<br /><br />So the South Koreans are no doubt willing to do whatever it takes to keep the United States happy. If the United States ambassador to South Korea was to openly make statements like the US ambassador to Finland did recently - <b>"U.S. ambassador Bruce Oreck warns Finland of turning inwards [...] 'It is understandable, but one can not return to the past. Isolation from the rest of the world and the closure of borders would be a bad thing to Finland as well as for the world at large', Oreck said.[...]<br />According to Oreck, turning inward would hinder the spreading of on new ideas to Finland, and hinder trade."</b><br /> <br />That might well be seen in the North as a sign that the South's alliance with America is weakening and there is no telling what actions Pyongyang could take as a result. <br /><br />So yes it <i>is</i> all down to the American influence.Todnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-80238364926951297142011-09-30T21:06:25.738-04:002011-09-30T21:06:25.738-04:00I don't think it's due to their military s...I don't think it's due to their military strategizing. <br /><br />They don't really have much of a military strategy or policy independent of the US military. <br /><br />In the late 70s they tried to make their military more independent of the US and tried to pursue a nuke program, but they were pressured and stopped by the US:<br /><br />http://www.globalasia.org/V6N3_Fall_2011/Peter_Hayes&Chung-in_Moon.html?PHPSESSID=0e8f5dac3a4a9ca3ae670d05472182ebAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-53936987461579279272011-09-30T17:14:00.787-04:002011-09-30T17:14:00.787-04:00Tod,
I really don't think South Korea's l...Tod,<br /><br />I really don't think South Korea's leaders care much about their country's long-term future.<br /><br />In Canada, when I talk with senior managers or businessmen of a certain age, I often hear them mention the "30 year rule." If a project won't pay off in thirty years, it's not worth investing in. You won't be around.<br /><br />I suspect that South Korea's business elite likewise think in similar terms. And why not? They've borrowed everything else from us.<br /><br />Ànyway, why should I care about what future generations will inherit if I have no special link with them? They're not my heirs.<br /><br />People are selfish, and genetic selfishness is the main way whereby people have been motivated to work for the long-term interest (i.e., after they're dead and gone).Peter Frostnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-17289736910070972162011-09-30T13:02:22.991-04:002011-09-30T13:02:22.991-04:00"That upward trend may be due to the growing ..."That upward trend may be due to the growing immigrant population. In some rural areas of South Korea, almost half of the births are to foreign-born mothers."<br /><br />You'd think this would be an easy thing to find out, but apparently the government statistical agency of Korea doesn't collect data on births to foreign-born mothers. Or at least, they don't make those statistics available on their english homepage.Maxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07327785256936928799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-14342251772057245142011-09-30T10:00:29.625-04:002011-09-30T10:00:29.625-04:00JimBo, In the cases of the state abandoning the na...JimBo, In the cases of the state abandoning the nation it's survival of the state that is at issue. It's called realism and it is applicable to any situation where there is no higher authority In his 'The Tragedy of Great Power Politics', Professor Mearsheimer cites 'The Code of the Street' as an example of realism.<br /><br /><b> "Many of the forms that dissing can take might seem petty to middle-class people (maintaining eye contact for too long, for example), but to those invested in the street code, these actions become serious indications of the other person's intentions. Consequently, such people become very sensitive to advances and slights, which could well serve as warnings of imminent physical confrontation."</b><br />So appearing weak will make it likely that you will be attacked. Here is another example of realism from a guide to surviving in prison.<br /> <b>"9. Don’t become obese or you’ll be perceived as unhealthy and weak, to be preyed upon. In prison, more people work out than in any other society.<br /><br />10. Learn prison slang. Beware of becoming a "torpedo" – usually a youngster manipulated to smash (beat up) someone so that the manipulator doesn’t get his hands dirty. Beware of someone doing an "okey-doke" on you – for example, an inmate lying to you about being called a punk, so that you will fight his enemy. Beware of becoming a "trick-bag" – being manipulated into saying something offensive to another, not realising that you were being insulting."</b><br /><br />So even convicts are are quite aware of the danger of being manipulated into doing something against their own interests.Todnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-81575329222728924822011-09-30T06:36:50.621-04:002011-09-30T06:36:50.621-04:00Of course nobody actually *wants* to do "Dirt...Of course nobody actually *wants* to do "Dirty, Dangerous, and Difficult" jobs - people do such jobs for money; and such jobs attract a wage premium for this reason.<br /><br />(See Why Men Earn More - by Warren Farrell for numerous examples - e.g. prison guards, lumberjacks, oil rig workers - all paid more than the workers skill level would suggest. Plus jobs with unsocial hours - e.g. people who work eight hours more than the national weekly average earn about double the average salary.) <br /><br />To say that immigrants do the jobs that natives 'do not want' to do *really* means that immigrants will do the jobs for *less money* than will natives - and that is all that the phrase means.Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-77321285743984331672011-09-30T01:23:02.776-04:002011-09-30T01:23:02.776-04:00States are machines for surviving
Survival machin...<i>States are machines for surviving</i><br /><br />Survival machines for whose genes?<br /><br /><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Extended_Phenotype#Genes_affect_the_organism.E2.80.99s_environment" rel="nofollow">"An animal's behaviour tends to maximize the survival of the genes "for" that behaviour, whether or not those genes happen to be in the body of the particular animal performing it."</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-16021346279279535232011-09-29T14:41:58.007-04:002011-09-29T14:41:58.007-04:00"The business community has emancipated itsel...<b>"The business community has emancipated itself from the nation state"</b><br /><br />I see things slightly differently, South Korea is unique because of the threat which it faces from North Korea; the leadership of South Korea believe that North Korea might attack them.<br /><br />Hence the Korean leadership (ie the Korean state) has been forced to abandon the concept of the Korean nation by a falling birthrate. States are machines for surviving in a anarchic world and that is the most likely motive for them taking drastic action which increases their military potential. It doesn't hurt that it is in accordance with US thinking on economic and egalitarian principles, but I don't think those things would be enough by themselves in Korea. <br /><br />Look at France, which has a long history of being the country where political tendencies and social trends first arise. It faced a threat from Germany. Between 1800 and 1900 the population of France increased from 25 million to 41 million. In the same period Germany's population went from 25 million to <b><i>56</i></b> million.<br /><br />I think the fall in relative power was what was behind the French state allowing massive immigration into France. I'll admit it's difficult to separate out the causative factors in the French case.<br /><br /><b>Alain DeBenoist: "France, as we know, starting with the 19th century, massively reached out to foreign immigrants. The immigrating population was already 800,000 in 1876, only to reach 1.2 million in 1911. French industry was the prime center of attraction for Italian and Belgian immigrants, followed by Polish, Spanish and Portuguese immigrants. {..] In 1931 there were 2.7 million foreigners in France, that is, 6.6 % of the total population. At that time France displayed the highest level of immigration in the world (515 persons on 100,000 inhabitants)"</b><br /> <br />I think the motive was fear that the low birthrate would make them vulnerable to attack. And indeed in 1940 Germany outnumbered the French in the call up class of 19 and 20 year olds by almost 2 to 1.<br /> <br />So the Korean elite don't have much choice, immigration or resign themselves to a loss of power relative to the North Koreans thereby greatly increasing the likelihood of a N. Korean attack.<br /><br />.Todnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-50366743071194316432011-09-28T20:20:07.094-04:002011-09-28T20:20:07.094-04:00Denmarks seems to have adopted relatively restrict...Denmarks seems to have adopted relatively restrictive immigration policies although I understand the left wing parties were successful at their recent elections. The treatment of Helmuth Nyborg is interesting, note how one sided this article is. I've added some comments as M Schwartz. <a href="http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=3734925856292601239&postID=5406928203057224868" rel="nofollow">Nyborg accused of dishonesty</a>Kiwiguynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-87962604926011252582011-09-28T12:30:47.323-04:002011-09-28T12:30:47.323-04:00renatolfrocha,
Fertility rates are falling very s...renatolfrocha,<br /><br />Fertility rates are falling very slowly in Subsaharan Africa. African family structure, notably the relatively low level of child care provided by immediate parents, makes fertility decline less likely.<br /><br />Hail to you,<br /><br />When I say that South Korea will be "much more than 10% non-Korean" in twenty years, I'm not including people who are half-Korean. The population projections cited in my post didn't include offspring of international marriages.<br /><br />It's also wrong to assume that all Asians are more or less the same. There are differences. Again, we are only starting to understand how much human populations differ from each other. The subject has long been taboo.<br /><br />Normally, when we don't fully understand the consequences of a certain line of action, the best advice is to "go slow" or even wait until we know more.Peter Frostnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-50834306741404439482011-09-28T00:33:05.149-04:002011-09-28T00:33:05.149-04:00hailtoyou said...
By the way, I've heard ...hailtoyou said...<br /><i><br /> By the way, I've heard that -- counting legal and illegal -- there are 1 million Chinese in South Korea alone.<br /><br /> And they are all-but a totally-invisible minority. As much as some would claim otherwise, they really can't tell the difference so well.<br /></i><br /><br />In the same way that the Chinese can pass for Thais or Koreans, the Jews can pass for white.Beyond Anonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-6380399269939485472011-09-27T22:19:18.251-04:002011-09-27T22:19:18.251-04:00It depends on genetic distance, doesn't it?
W...It depends on genetic distance, doesn't it?<br /><br />What's the genetic distance between Koreans and these groups? Is it like intra-Northern European distance, or is it like Northern vs. Southern European distance, or like European Caucasian vs. non-European Caucasian distance? If it's like the latter two it would be a significant change, I would think.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-59259598370926886952011-09-27T21:50:53.070-04:002011-09-27T21:50:53.070-04:00By the way, I've heard that -- counting legal ...By the way, I've heard that -- counting legal and illegal -- there are 1 million <i>Chinese</i> in South Korea alone. <br /><br />And they are all-but a totally-invisible minority. As much as some would claim otherwise, they really can't tell the difference so well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-48180723140817951162011-09-27T21:49:10.425-04:002011-09-27T21:49:10.425-04:00"In twenty years, South Korea will probably b..."<i>In twenty years, South Korea will probably be much more than 10% non-Korean.</i>" --Peter Frost<br /><br />It is fallacious to define 'Korean' as "having only 16 great-great grandparents born on the soil of the Korean Peninsula", as you seem to be doing, implicitly. <br /><br />There is range of visual looks in South Korea, as it is, often overlapping with other Asian nations, including to an extent with SE-Asia. Adding in some Chinese, Vietnamese, etc. will not swamp the boat. <br /><br />It's like worrying that Norway will "abolish itself" through Swedish, Finnish, Dutch, etc. immigration.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-4921656281410959012011-09-27T14:41:57.287-04:002011-09-27T14:41:57.287-04:00For how long can it be susteined in the west or e...For how long can it be susteined in the west or even Africa if fertility keeps falling all over the world, even in Sub-saharan Africa?Rochahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14452255044586172653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-63983925430229325462011-09-27T13:19:28.732-04:002011-09-27T13:19:28.732-04:00"Irreversible decisions are being made with n..."Irreversible decisions are being made with no real understanding of the long-term consequences. It's like hiring a high-school dropout to do brain surgery."<br /><br />What's so funny with that? America is now hiring middle-school dropout to do brain surgery.Ben10noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-80765438166157218292011-09-27T00:49:22.061-04:002011-09-27T00:49:22.061-04:00The likeliest answer is the country’s special rela...<i>The likeliest answer is the country’s special relationship with the United States.</i><br /><br />South Korea also has one of the world's highest suicide rates and the highest among the OECD countries:<br /><br />http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-south-korea-suicide-20110909,0,6194913.story<br /><br />I wonder if they're suffering a kind of parasitic castration as a result of their "special relationship with the US". The "special relationship" may be the conduit through which certain genes are applying "action at a distance" and causing the Koreans to express virulent <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Extended_Phenotype#Genes_affect_the_organism.E2.80.99s_environment" rel="nofollow">parasite extended phenotypes.</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-36006485819444117472011-09-26T20:56:54.389-04:002011-09-26T20:56:54.389-04:00Pawikirogii,
What is happening is not so much int...Pawikirogii,<br /><br />What is happening is not so much intermixture as the replacement of one population by another.<br /><br />Kiwiguy,<br /><br />The sources of immigration to South Korea are a moving target. At present, the main ones are Southeast Asia and South Asia. In another ten years, subSaharan Africa may be a major source.<br /><br />It's difficult to say what will be lost irretrievably. There are a large number of mental traits with moderate to high heritabilities: IQ, time orientation, personality factors, pleasure deferment, etc. How much do these traits differ between Koreans and other human populations? <br /><br />We don't fully know, and that's the tragedy. Irreversible decisions are being made with no real understanding of the long-term consequences. It's like hiring a high-school dropout to do brain surgery. <br /><br />Mark,<br /><br />That upward trend may be due to the growing immigrant population. In some rural areas of South Korea, almost half of the births are to foreign-born mothers.<br /><br />In twenty years, South Korea will probably be much more than 10% non-Korean. The country is a demographic tinderbox because of its very low fertility. Things could change very quickly.<br /><br />PRCalDude,<br /><br />Officially, they come as traders on limited term visas. Then they stay.Peter Frostnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-89845256515823368662011-09-26T06:29:57.815-04:002011-09-26T06:29:57.815-04:00Completely off-topic but possibly related to some ...Completely off-topic but possibly related to some of your research.<br /><br />Reading around the financial crisis i keep coming across commenst relating to the attractiveness of Christine Lagarde at the IMF which seems unusual given the grey hair<br /><br />http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8788223/Christine-Lagarde-IMF-may-need-billions-in-extra-funding.html<br /><br />However it made me wonder if very white hair could trick the brain and partly mimic the effect of blonde hair simply because of the lightness?Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13398462488549380796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-43578756325206550632011-09-25T18:35:13.857-04:002011-09-25T18:35:13.857-04:00However, the PRC is not importing them and does no...<i>However, the PRC is not importing them and does not need them, they are coming of their own accord.</i><br /><br />How are 70 IQ peoples making it past Chinese immigration authorities without help? How are they finding work, or are there massive welfare handouts in China like here?<br /><br /><i>I also know that the Chinese don't like to interbreed with them.</i><br /><br />Does it matter? Californians mostly didn't breed with the Mexicans, yet we still went the way of the Rhodesian. The birthrate differential is ultimately what matters. Chinese people aren't having any children and SSAs still are, and now they're having them in China.PRCalDudehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04536108855155262530noreply@blogger.com