tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post6519589869010459130..comments2024-03-22T15:55:34.030-04:00Comments on Evo and Proud: Rotherham: The search for answersPeter Frosthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04303172060029254340noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-64584039517291307362014-09-22T14:26:08.965-04:002014-09-22T14:26:08.965-04:00Good stuff.
One of the root causes of this is sim...Good stuff.<br /><br />One of the root causes of this is simply mass immigration creating a gender imbalance among the young which - in blue collar environments - leads to violent competition over females, the development of a gang culture as a product of that violent competition and absolutely vast amounts of sexual violence inflicted on the young females both directly and indirectly through creating the demand for an industry dedicated to creating prostitutes to service the millions of immigrant workers.<br /><br />This happens wherever that gender imbalance arises and its only the scale and the *form* it takes that varies by ethnicity / culture.<br /><br />However separate from and on top of that there are also specific cultural and religious factors that drive this kind of behavior even when there is no gender imbalance and magnify it when there is.<br /><br />I think you nail one of those reasons but another factor imo is the very close cousin marriage which is one of the prime distinctions between say Pakistanis - especially the most rural ones which is the case here - and Indians.<br /><br />I think the ultra-close relatedness acts as a magnifier of the factors you describe.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-14849591246057117822014-09-19T11:25:17.785-04:002014-09-19T11:25:17.785-04:00Peter's knowledge limitation is the West and t...Peter's knowledge limitation is the West and the others. It shows.<br /><br /><br />" As a means to keep deviancy in check, shaming has three limitations:<br /><br />- It cannot control behavior that is not witnessed by anyone other than the wrongdoers themselves."<br /><br /><br />***It can control, Peter. One of the key elements of Confucius is self-inspection alongwith strict self-discipline. e.g. Also see classic works of Xunzi. Confucius ideals have served as the moral supplyment mechanism of the open civil laws to curb these situations for> 2,000 years. On other words, Confucius ideals in this sense are the equivalent to the European guilt-based religion, but in a much more institutionized manner operating in a longer and consistently stronger time span.<br /><br /><br /><br />"- It cannot control behavior that is aimed at someone outside one's community. "<br /><br />*** Right. For someone outside Confucius community, we used to call him "barbarian" until the anti-Confucius Boshevik Communists took over China. Then and law-less and Confucius-less modern China has shown some signs of moral decays, as exposed to the world from time to time by some dispicable social morality problems shown in websites such as dailymail, chinasmack, etc.<br /><br /><br />"- Because shame is socially mediated, it is less effective in modern Western societies, where people generally interact as anonymous individuals."<br /><br />***True for the Far West societies, where laws and guilt-based religion have been used together. This is not the case however for the Muslims in the Middle West. <br /><br />Panda has to strongly protest here: why the dishonest Europeans always try to spin this undesireable situation ( to them ) where the Muslims (Indians, Bangladeshies, Pakistanis, Arabs, etc) , as a part of Caucasoid as you call them, are your close racial brothers in fact, but you cunnigly call them "Middle EAST", "middle-Easterners", and "Asians" whenever you deem fit? They have nothing to do with the East, let's be honest! They should be called "Middle West" and "Westerners" instead.<br /><br /><br /><br />"A minority of world cultures supplement shame with another means of behavior control. These cultures, essentially those of Western Europe,..."<br /><br />*** Essentially, Peter? Yeah right. ROFL.Panda@Warnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-31342002134781995852014-09-16T17:40:34.961-04:002014-09-16T17:40:34.961-04:00There are clearly degrees to which it is hard to q...There are clearly degrees to which it is hard to quantify the variables involved - many children were being abused in care quite before Pakistani men were involved and in other regions of the UK than they live in.<br /><br />Yet I think the assumptions here have some measure of effect.<br /><br />Subsistence also has some part to play in all this:<br /><br />East Asians tend to have societies where men and women both exert high effort and work in providing for and raising children. This limits the amount of wives they can support. The men have little time to be chasing women and tend to look more for (still young) women to form a permanent monogamous bond with. There's less on the demand side, so not as much monitoring is indeed even necessary.<br /><br />By contrast, Middle Eastern and West Asian (Islamic) folk tend to have societies where herding is a relatively large share of the economy. A successful herder with large flocks can support many wives and children (unsuccessful ones don't, but they disappear from the gene pools). Women contribute less real work to supporting children. This results in a strongly patriarchal order, where women have no legitimate purpose in public, while flocks of women can be accrued by men. Such men will also favor the cognitive skills for defending their herds (vigilance of a sort). <br /><br />European style sedentary dairy herding has high productivity but tends to involve more work (so is somewhat closer to the East Asian style situation with high provisioning effort by both parents.)<br /><br />The West African situation differs from the Middle Eastern one in that West African women do most of the work supporting and raising children. So the farming system favors men who recruit several wives, but in this instance, women are assumed to have a legitimate purpose in public, and young females are at least somewhat more worthy of protection on this basis. They don't and can't go in for purdah to the same degree. At the same time, evolution will at least slightly favor men who choose fertile, yet sturdy women who are good providers, curbing to some extent tendencies to select younger women.<br /><br />I think you will also see some effect from general intelligence on this - East Asian societies, though arguably shame based, clearly have a tendency where the people living in them tend to form principled morality from extrapolations and inferences from shame, so even when shame givers aren't physically present or observing, they still have an effect. <br /><br />This both would be a side consequence of general intelligence and seems likely to promoted evolutionary success in the past. https://www.academia.edu/6472342/The_Good_the_Bad_and_the_Just_Justice_Sensitivity_Predicts_Neural_Response_during_Moral_Evaluation_of_Actions_Performed_by_Others - evidence higher order cognition supports concepts of justice (and presumably moral behavior through this route).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-5022477994463098892014-09-16T13:35:30.163-04:002014-09-16T13:35:30.163-04:00The Middle-East is a bridge between two continents...The Middle-East is a bridge between two continents and a cross roads for migration north to south, east to west, south to north and west to east. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-51798151892754435312014-09-15T19:28:49.639-04:002014-09-15T19:28:49.639-04:00Peter, something that interests me is what the Mid...Peter, something that interests me is what the Middle East was like pre-Islam. I haven't been able to find a lot of info on this subject. Was it just as violent as today, with endless wars and gangs such as (the most recent one in the news) ISIS, or earlier ones like Al-Qaeda?<br /><br />Could it be that Islam itself is some sort of a response to the physical or geographical or even climate-related forces that act on that region? From this perspective, even if Islam hadn't emerged in the region, something similar to it would have. There are people who blame Islam for the upheaval and terror we're seeing in the Middle East, but I'm wondering if there are deeper (perhaps evolutionary or physical) forces that shape that region as a whole, or forces that dictate the religion's geography.Readernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-49239211649782926272014-09-15T17:16:41.810-04:002014-09-15T17:16:41.810-04:00Yes, but there is no core agreement the way there ...Yes, but there is no core agreement the way there is in Christianity. Otherwise the exploitation would have been publicly denounced.<br /><br />For all people talk about the individualism of north Europeans, amongst Christians and christians there is quite a bit of consensus over basic issues. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-22024819798035303642014-09-15T07:15:14.712-04:002014-09-15T07:15:14.712-04:00"I get the impression that Islam, like Buddhi..."I get the impression that Islam, like Buddhism, is about the individual's relationship with morality. And that is why the non-criminal Muslim community do not speak out. As far as they are concerned, another's sin is not their concern. Whereas in Christianity, sin in the community is everyone's concern."<br /><br />You get it wrong:<br /><br />1) There is not the concept of sin in Islam int he same way there is in Christianity. There is haram and halal, but it has more to do with "permitted" and "forbidden". And usually is in relation with Muslims, not other humans.<br /><br />2) If something is permitted, no Muslim have the right to censor another Muslim doing it. So, as Muhammad had sex with his 9 years old wife, it is permissible to have sex with a nine years old wife.<br /><br />3) In Islam, women must be under the possession of some male and under its control. Rotherham girls evidently were not so they just fell in the "right hand's possession" category. Usually one could argue the "right hand's possession" is a war category, but Islam is always at war (even undeclared) with every other religion, because there is no concept of tolerance in it. Just convenience and expediency.painlord2k@gmail.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04566115851088917514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-71062042617321253862014-09-15T06:18:17.165-04:002014-09-15T06:18:17.165-04:00"The only way to defeat it"
That's ..."The only way to defeat it"<br /><br />That's one way. Protestant sects are another. African churches are another. But you're right, the European moral code has either rotted or been corroded or both.<br /><br />But I would say this, hopefully not too controversially, I get the impression that Islam, like Buddhism, is about the individual's relationship with morality. And that is why the non-criminal Muslim community do not speak out. As far as they are concerned, another's sin is not their concern. Whereas in Christianity, sin in the community is everyone's concern.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-63002509844783948232014-09-14T23:50:43.833-04:002014-09-14T23:50:43.833-04:00"Dutch girls really are the easiest. (...) No... "Dutch girls really are the easiest. (...) Nowadays, there are girls of thirteen or fourteen years old who have already lost their virginity."<br /><br />Why are these girls so easy? It's because they and their society is infected with a parasitic meme...feminism. Just one of a number of parasitic memes intent upon destroying Western Christian patriarchy. <br /><br />The only way to defeat it and regain control of the sexuality of Dutch/British women is to embrace Sharia.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-79917188244210962022014-09-14T15:42:10.593-04:002014-09-14T15:42:10.593-04:00The most interesting part of this is about the fut...The most interesting part of this is about the future:<br />if the solution offered by the establishment will fail, what will happen when they fail and in between.<br /><br />Not all white girls of Rotherham were exploited and not all of them were fully exploited.<br /><br />How these girls will grow up? How will grow up their brothers and white friends and relatives. Do they will have a long term lower reproductive fitness overall?<br /><br />Because we know what do not exterminate you will select you to be more resistant and resilient. And if they are stomped enough times, they will mutate in some wicked giant lizard that will bite back and take a foot out of their tormentors.<br /><br />painlord2k@gmail.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04566115851088917514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-19019880706415077742014-09-14T15:30:54.825-04:002014-09-14T15:30:54.825-04:00A very good post. I'd add, though, that there ...A very good post. I'd add, though, that there is specifically Muslim aspect, seeing that the gang-grooming phenomenon is found overwhelming in Muslim immigrant communities, and not among, say, Hindu immigrants. Even though some of the factors you mention - shame-based cultures, sexual scarcity - seem to apply just as well to them. It's tempting to invoke the treatment of non-Muslim female captives in early Islam: even if respectable Muslims contextualize these teachings, Muslim gang members may draw on them as rationalizations and even expressions of Muslim identity.<br /><br />David R. MerridaleAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com