tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post214217524975791355..comments2024-03-22T15:55:34.030-04:00Comments on Evo and Proud: What makes hair color "hot"?Peter Frosthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04303172060029254340noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-27691269551552527212012-04-18T07:25:30.518-04:002012-04-18T07:25:30.518-04:00Female hair colour is "naturally more diverse...Female hair colour is "naturally more diverse"? Interesting. Which study/studies show that?s6https://www.blogger.com/profile/02656682336069273367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-23451950838754695602012-03-22T18:07:15.840-04:002012-03-22T18:07:15.840-04:00It seems about every other woman: white, black, la...It seems about every other woman: white, black, latina, has the same hair color as that model. Red hair has been popular for the last several years. It's probably time for blonde to make a comeback.Gininoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-83388746691977983812012-03-20T14:11:11.442-04:002012-03-20T14:11:11.442-04:00Ben,
1. There is a 3-way interaction between pain...Ben,<br /><br />1. There is a 3-way interaction between pain sensitivity, hair color, and sex. Red-haired women seem to respond more readily to painkillers. The following is from Mogil et al (2003):<br /><br />"our results revealed a significant influence of MC1R genotype on analgesia in women only. Pentazocine at the dose used<br />produced modest analgesia in all men. By contrast, ‘‘classic’’<br />light-skinned, redheaded women with two variant MC1R alleles<br />displayed robust pentazocine analgesia against ischemic pain and<br />were the only group to display convincing analgesia against<br />thermal pain. Skin type appeared to be a better proxy for MC1R<br />genotype than hair color, as these effects reached significance for<br />ischemic pain when light- versus dark-skinned women were compared as described above, but did not quite do so for redheaded versus nonredheaded women"<br /><br />2. We don't know. There seems to be an urban legend that we have dates for the appearance of blue eyes and red hair, but no such dating has yet been done.<br /><br />Rosalind Harding came up with a mean estimate of 50,000 years (this may be the source for that Wikipedia entry) using a model that assumed no selection for or against red hair, i.e., relaxation of selection against red hair.<br /><br />One can hardly cite this estimate to disprove the sexual selection hypothesis, since the model assumes that no such selection happened.<br /><br />3. Red-hair alleles are recessive, but they have visible effects in the heterozygote state. <br /><br />In order to date the appearance of red hair and other 'new' hair colors, we will have to retrieve the MC1R gene from ancient skeletons to see which alleles were present. There are other dating methods, but direct examination would be the cleanest way.<br /><br />Sean,<br /><br />In the case of skin color, the desire for color novelty has to compete against a general preference for lighter female skin, which in turn reflects a need to create more stable, longer-lasting pair bonds where the male is less aggressive and more caring toward his mate.<br /><br />Under conditions of intense sexual selection, the second tendency will progressively overwhelm the first. Mean skin color will become steadily lighter in women and, by extension, in both sexes.<br /><br />You're confusing 'older' with 'sexually mature'. Symons argued that women become darker with successive pregnancies. Such women are older but they're not sexually more desirable.<br /><br />I think women tan for two main reasons: 1- it exploits the color novelty factor; and 2 - it triggers a more aggressive and perhaps more stimulating sexual response. <br /><br />There's also some evidence that women can become addicted to tanning (i.e., it stimulates the pleasure center in the brain, although this could be a conditioned reflex).<br /><br />At my high school, blonds were about 20 to 25% of the population. That is probably the threshold where a hair color starts to become common.<br /><br />Anon,<br /><br />There's a trivial explanation for those red-haired mummies. Hair has two pigments: eumelanin (dark) and pheomelanin (yellowish red). Eumelanin breaks down more rapidly than does pheomelanin, so hair will turn blond and then red over time.<br /><br />This is also why people turn blond in the summer.Peter Frostnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-61626687816732490402012-03-20T13:35:21.930-04:002012-03-20T13:35:21.930-04:00Artificial hair color seems an indication of '...Artificial hair color seems an indication of 'alternative' or bolshie leanings rather than being hot. <br /><br />Bottle blonde hair is still very popular, blue contact lenses too. One aspect that may be worth taking into account is that in cities like London about half the young are non white. It is my impression that even those non white men who have brought up in the West still rate the light hair and eye colors of European women highly. And a high proportion of immigrants are young men from counties where light hair and eyes are rare. Women are increasingly open to considering non white men as potential partners, and they rate Black men are rated as more physically attractive than white.<br /><br />I think that blonde hair has a lot of mileage in it yet. In fact natural European eye and hair colours are destined to become ever more rare as the number of children born to two white parents falls. I don't see artificial hair colour as ever being regarded as 'hot'.Seannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-11740859512654417602012-03-19T00:56:05.310-04:002012-03-19T00:56:05.310-04:00"These reports from greek or latin writers gi..."These reports from greek or latin writers give the feelings that redhairs were not rare in these times in barbarian tribes, maybe with a frequency higher than today, except in celtic isolates."<br /><br />I doubt it, outsiders tend to notice the most striking features of a group and than associate those features with the whole group.<br /><br />Take for instance the prevalaence of the east asian racial epithet ang mo.<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ang_mo<br /><br />It essentially means 'red-haired monkey' and was used by Chinese, Malaysians and Singaporeans to refer to the dutch traders who began their trading adventures into the regions centuries ago. Now I find it highly unlikely that all the dutch traders were red-haired, but I have no doubt that some would have been and that would have been a very striking feature to separate them from the indigenous people in those regions.chrisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-89415458778133070362012-03-18T11:15:53.762-04:002012-03-18T11:15:53.762-04:00These reports from greek or latin writers give the...These reports from greek or latin writers give the feelings that redhairs were not rare in these times in barbarian tribes, maybe with a frequency higher than today, except in celtic isolates.Ben10noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-1252925296572527342012-03-18T02:47:41.952-04:002012-03-18T02:47:41.952-04:00"Estimates on the original occurrence of the ..."Estimates on the original occurrence of the currently active gene for red hair vary from 20,000 to 100,000 years ago...100 000 years, really?, it seems very old"<br /><br />I read somewhere - which i can't find - that red hair is a close mutation from black hair so maybe red hair marked step one in a transition to multiple hair colors?<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_hair<br /><br />"Several accounts by Greek writers mention redheaded people. A fragment by the poet Xenophanes describes the Thracians as blue-eyed and red haired.[5] Herodotus described the Budini people as being predominantly red haired. Dio Cassius described Boudica, Queen of the Iceni, to be "tall and terrifying in appearance... a great mass of red hair... over her shoulders."<br /><br />The Roman historian Tacitus commented on the "red hair and large limbs of the inhabitants of Caledonia",[6] which he connected with some red haired Gaulish tribes of Germanic and Belgic relation.<br /><br />In Asia, red hair has been found among the ancient Tocharians...Caucasian Tarim mummies have been found with red hair dating to the 2nd millennium BC.[7]"<br /><br />There's also the Egyptians describing the Libyans as "red" etc.<br /><br />.<br />"Part of the sexual selection might be for lighter body hair, with lighter head hair as a side effect."<br /><br />Very good point.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-75788053007877109932012-03-17T23:52:27.722-04:002012-03-17T23:52:27.722-04:00Part of the sexual selection might be for lighter ...Part of the sexual selection might be for lighter body hair, with lighter head hair as a side effect.Haroldnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-89275330148735986802012-03-17T17:15:16.641-04:002012-03-17T17:15:16.641-04:00Re 'Fall Hair Color Trends 2012', that sou...Re 'Fall Hair Color Trends 2012', that sounds like fashion rather than the thing men are interested in.<b>I’ve argued that these new colors were selected for … their newness and colorfulness.</b><br /><br />I'm confident that you are right about that. I doubt artificial hair colouring is working under the same selection pressure now. As you suggested a while ago-<br /><br /><b>"In earlier generations, the preferred model of sexual behavior was one of stable, fecund, and long-term relationships. Other forms of erotic expression did exist and are attested in the literature, but at a lower level of prevalence than would be expected if allowed free and unfettered expression. They were discouraged by social custom because, in one way or another, they were less optimal in producing stable families.<br /><br />One of these alternate eroticisms was the practice of deliberately darkening women's skin. Rightly or wrongly, the preferred model of sexual behavior encouraged women to keep their skin as fair as possible. This "meme" has proven highly successful in most human societies, and, like so many other memes, has succeeded without its practitioners fully knowing why. During my fieldwork in a rural community of eastern Québec, I asked retired farmwomen why they took such great pains to keep their skin untanned. Many had no idea at all. One simply said: "It was important. My sisters were the same. I don't know the reason. They never told us" (Frost 2005: 60-61).</b> <br /><br />Now girls tan their skin. And people object when they are young, ostensibly that is on health grounds, but when it is spray on tan it's still perceived as a bad thing. I think that is because people sense a tan is a 'adult' look. A tanned look definitely makes girls seem far older than their years somehow. And actual tanning has an effect on sexuality <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2011/aug/19/ubertan-tanning-nasal-spray" rel="nofollow">Owners of Ubertan tanning spray could face two years in prison</a> (This is a tanning drug you inhale BTW) <i>"Ubertan contains melanotan, a chemical that stimulates the production of melanin in skin cells making it darker. Reported side effects include nausea, migraines, dizziness, palpitations and enhanced libido"</i> (Google search <a href="https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?rlz=1C1AVSX_enGB402GB403&sourceid=chrome-instant&ix=sea&ie=UTF-8&ion=1#hl=en&rlz=1C1AVSX_enGB402GB403&sclient=psy-ab&q=ubertan+aphrodisiac&oq=ubertan+aphrodisiac&aq=f&aqi=&aql=1&gs_sm=3&gs_upl=1536983l1547873l1l1548318l19l19l0l0l0l0l123l1441l17.2l19l0&gs_l=serp.3...1536983l1547873l1l1548318l19l19l0l0l0l0l123l1441l17j2l19l0.cfis.1.&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=fe3391ac1fcd77b4&ix=sea&ion=1&biw=1066&bih=570" rel="nofollow">Ubertan aphrodisiac</a>)<br /><br />So if the motivations for skin colour are diametrically different now, why expect the selection for hair colour to still operate in the same way - for rarity. "Blonde hair' is <i>not</i> rare at all, it's extremely common. The overwhelming majority of 'blonde' hair nowadays is artificial lightened. But women still much prefer the bottle blonde look to red or the more unusual colours like the unnatural ones you talk about.<br /><br />I think one reason standard blonde hair is popular among young women, despite being more than a little common, is it works as one part of an image; it works as an advertising signal, a bit like revealing clothes. to signal being open to the more modern kind of relationship. I think the modern idea of "hot" is tied up with the perception of signaling being <i>available</i> in a way females were not before modern times.Seannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-7313119662771621252012-03-17T15:58:19.598-04:002012-03-17T15:58:19.598-04:00Allright, i'll copy here my questions from the...Allright, i'll copy here my questions from the previous post:<br /><br /> 1) what is this special sensitivity to anaesthetic (mentioned in the previous post)?<br /><br />2) When did these alleles 'popped up'in the european populations?<br />Wikipedia states:<br />"Estimates on the original occurrence of the currently active gene for red hair vary from 20,000 to 100,000 years ago"<br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_hair<br />100 000 years, really?, it seems very old...<br /><br />3) Wikipedia states that the redhairs alleles are recessives. Is there any selective advantages for heterozygotes (such as for sickle cell disease) ?<br /><br />Also, there is no proof that these alleles were either rare or common during the prehistoric ages (and how can you infer the frequencies?). There might have been several burst in frequencies, followed by declines with differences among different social casts. During the middle ages, women from the nobility must have been in very large excess, many were put in monastery, and sexual selection might have been more intense in the nobility than in the peasanry. What do you make of that?Ben10noreply@blogger.com