tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post5004053884485805331..comments2024-03-22T15:55:34.030-04:00Comments on Evo and Proud: The 'monkey people' we once knewPeter Frosthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04303172060029254340noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-5142235688176308852013-09-05T08:54:38.436-04:002013-09-05T08:54:38.436-04:00Peter,
Is the Siberian image that van Deusen and ...Peter,<br /><br />Is the Siberian image that van Deusen and yourself refer to as 'monkey' the same as, overlapping with or distinct from the 'chuchunaa' and 'mulen' images?<br /><br />The Siberian 'wildman' image I am familiar with seems to represent anatomically and culturally modern human hunter foragers, not a monkey.<br /><br />http://w11.zetaboards.com/bonesandbehaviours/topic/8937220/1/Bones and Behaviourshttp://w11.zetaboards.com/bonesandbehaviours/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-72145942247655877772013-01-14T04:47:27.016-05:002013-01-14T04:47:27.016-05:00The Soko
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-fr...The Soko <br /><br />http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9A04E5DB1E31EE3ABC4D53DFB466838B699FDEAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-89393609622564624192012-03-31T05:31:13.077-04:002012-03-31T05:31:13.077-04:00Moreover, hominid fossils in China share the same ...<i>Moreover, hominid fossils in China share the same facial features: comparatively flat faces, a larger angle between the nose and the forehead, a flat nose bridge, rectangular eye sockets and forward-projecting cheekbones. All these features are absent in Africans</i><br /><br />http://johnhawks.net/explainer/laboratory/race-cranium<br /><br />"Cranial features and race<br /><br />Shape of the eye orbits, viewed from the front. <b>Africans tend to a more rectangular shape, East Asians more circular</b>, Europeans tend to have an ``aviator glasses'' shape."<br /><br />In terms of nose bridge flatness, African nasal bones are pretty flat compared to European nasal bones. Difference with Asians is that the flatness comes from very reduced depth and slightly reduced width, while flatness for Africans comes from increased width and slightly reduced depth. So Asian nasal bones look flatter in profile, despite having similar kind of angle (not sure who has a flatter nasal angle).<br /><br />Be interesting to check whether the nose flatness of these hominids comes from having a shallow nose or a broad nose.<br /><br />Not sure how to assess angle between nose and forehead - there is a trend in hominids across time to have a more vertical and less retreating forehead. Also "comparatively flat faces"? If you ignore the correlation with projecting cheekbones, then it seems like that's a reduction in prognathism, and that happens everywhere over time (someplaces more, some less) as well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-55482430138249366462012-03-31T02:34:08.835-04:002012-03-31T02:34:08.835-04:00Yes an interesting subject. I've lived in Chin...Yes an interesting subject. I've lived in China for 45 years and studied ancient Chinese skeletons, from the holocene to present time. I would say that the only difference between the Chinese (and most phenotypes from East Asia), relates to the emergence of the mongoloid body plan, and especially the unique features of the mongoloid skull. Of course, the dramatic effect of a dominant grain diet (rice) and 1,828 famines over the past 2,000 years, have turbocharged the effect of neoteny on the mongoloids and especially southern mongoloids, with expreme child like facial features, reduced stature, and in most cases a postcranial skeleton with a body plan of a 12 year old child. Surely such extreme selection pressure presents issues about the idea that modern Chinese evolved, as a different species, to that of Europeans and Africans. In this sense the initial "Multi-regional Theory" of modern human has a problem.<br /><br />For anyone wanting to study the Chinese phenotype, I recommend Han Kangxin a retired physical anthropologist from Beijing, who has studied hundreds of Central Asian and East Asian modern human skeletons, and, with his wife (a paleoanthropologist) has a passion for Peking Man. In Prof Han's own words - The Chinese could not have evolved from Peking Man because of so many morphology differences, such as the chin, flat brow and small brain. Of course, the Peking Man fossils (in fact all Homo Erectus skeletons from China), are, real fossils, with no bone, and as such no DNA. Thus, unlike the Neanderthal and Denisovan, which although considered fossils, due to their age, are actually bone, there is no way of proving whether H. Erectus, through DNA, is related to modern humans. <br /><br />Personally, I believe H. Erectus in China had a full body of hair and was not as erect, nor had the hand dexterity of modern humans, even our most archaic relatives. Basically, they were really archaic and as such maybe a little too different for mixed breeding to have occurred, with modern Homo sapiens. Of course, this does not mean that interbreeding did not occur with say H. Erectus and the Denisovans, or other homind species which arrived and made Central and East Asia home, 1 million to maybe 200,000 years ago. <br /><br />By the way, the Denisovan finger used to extract DNA from, has not and will never prove, whether this species had a chin, thick eyebrow ridges or a flat face with a large frontal cortex.THE_TRUTHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16396029918776346995noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-36976827724052907182012-03-30T18:49:04.946-04:002012-03-30T18:49:04.946-04:00Rather foolish comments I made there, thanks for s...Rather foolish comments I made there, thanks for setting me right.<br /><br /><b>"Instead, the data can be most parsimoniously explained if the Denisova gene flow occurred in Southeast Asia itself. Thus, archaic Denisovans must have lived over an extraordinarily broad geographic and ecological range, from Siberia to tropical Asia."</b><br /><br />That entails accepting Denisovians were able to adapt to the challenges of survival over a huge north-south range. Siberia's climate was different back I believe, but it's still pretty far north. It suggests a highly troubling use of brainpower for technological innovation. <br /><br />A 'parsimonious' explanation should not accept Denisovians could independently evolve advanced capacities not too different from contemporaneous modern human capacities. That is is half way accepting a key tenet of the multiregional hypothesis I think.Seannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-31457510601344379402012-03-30T15:31:02.550-04:002012-03-30T15:31:02.550-04:00Ben,
Perhaps, but it's too easy to see Neande...Ben,<br /><br />Perhaps, but it's too easy to see Neanderthals in ancient myths. It would be useful if we could relate certain Neanderthal traits (e.g., reddish head and body hair) to stories about wild men in European myths and folklore.<br /><br />Sean,<br /><br />Shovel-shaped incisors are also present in many Africans, specifically Khoisans and Bantu. This seems to be an archaic trait that has been lost in some modern human groups but not in others.<br /><br />The archaic admixture in Melanesians matches the archaic DNA from the Denisova cave in Siberia.<br /><br />Olave d'Estienne,<br /><br />It's a nice idea, but I would not choose May 2. That choice seems like a putdown of people who celebrate May 1. In most countries, May 1 (and not Labor Day) is the workers' holiday.Peter Frostnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-69573674217448136772012-03-29T21:07:12.406-04:002012-03-29T21:07:12.406-04:00When should HBD Day occur?
Read the proposal an...When should HBD Day occur? <br /><br />Read <a href="http://blode0322.blogspot.com/2012/03/human-biodiversity-day.html" rel="nofollow">the proposal</a> and vote in the poll <a href="http://blode0322.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">my blog</a>.B322https://www.blogger.com/profile/18257802768718375656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-52755258274567457722012-03-29T14:11:18.879-04:002012-03-29T14:11:18.879-04:00The Chinese are very good at earth sciences and th...The Chinese are very good at earth sciences and things requiring concrete observations. Carlton Coon noted that modern Asians have certain features, such as being flat faced and the plane of their forehead, in common with the archiacs of their region. <a href="http://www.china.org.cn/china/2009-11/24/content_18944317_5.htm" rel="nofollow">Is Nanjing Man the ancestor of the modern Chinese?</a> "One of the puzzles that the out-of-Africa theory needs to account for is the prevalence of shovel-shaped front teeth among the modern Chinese population. Dr. Xing Song says the distinctively-shaped teeth are prevalent in the Mongoloid race in East Asia. [...] According to Xing, these peculiarly shaped teeth were inherited in a continuous line from early Chinese hominids. About 80 percent of Chinese have such upper front teeth in contrast to only 5 percent of Europeans and 10 percent of Africans. Xing says this is strong evidence of the continuity of human evolution in China.<br /><br />Moreover, hominid fossils in China share the same facial features: comparatively flat faces, a larger angle between the nose and the forehead, a flat nose bridge, rectangular eye sockets and forward-projecting cheekbones. All these features are absent in Africans" <br /><br />100% independent evolution in China (which would make the Chinese a different species)is most unlikely. But I think when there are such notable archaic-modern similarities with only 4% Neanderthal admixture found, a rethink is called for. In relation to China at least.<br /><br /><b>"Denisovans must have lived over an extraordinarily broad geographic and ecological range, from Siberia to tropical Asia"</b><br />You sound a little doubtful. Could there have been still unknown archaics to the south of the Siberian Denisovans.Seannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-64581921545827947592012-03-29T14:01:40.352-04:002012-03-29T14:01:40.352-04:00Also Peter...do you think there is any chances tha...Also Peter...do you think there is any chances that oral transmission of neanderthal sightings could account for the constant references to 'giants' and inbreedings between giants and humans, in the nordic mythology?Ben10noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-70762241334184874482012-03-29T13:54:12.914-04:002012-03-29T13:54:12.914-04:00hmm, right...it cannot look like a complete monkey...hmm, right...it cannot look like a complete monkey either. I mean Neanderthals had tools, so i gave him a primitive spear, so people who witnessed him must have recognized that he was also somehow human. I don't know...you think he was very hairy on the face?<br />Lots of hairy monkeys are not very hairy on the face, proportionaly...Ben10noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-39975041612245338702012-03-29T12:09:19.671-04:002012-03-29T12:09:19.671-04:00Sean,
There is a longstanding belief among the Ch...Sean,<br /><br />There is a longstanding belief among the Chinese that their origins in East Asia are very ancient. The multiregional model is popular in China because it supports that belief.<br /><br />Rev Right,<br /><br />Perhaps. I suspect that Eurasians have the least admixture, but I could be wrong.<br /><br />Ben,<br /><br />Why no hair on the Neanderthal's face?Peter Frostnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-74350901208325507472012-03-28T13:03:14.087-04:002012-03-28T13:03:14.087-04:00I had some fun with 3d renderings:
[IMG]http://i4...I had some fun with 3d renderings:<br /><br />[IMG]http://i42.tinypic.com/2a8gga9.jpg[/IMG]<br /><br />How I see an european neanderthal:<br />[IMG]http://i41.tinypic.com/14ilevp.jpg[/IMG]Ben10noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-91045153681066012232012-03-28T02:04:17.710-04:002012-03-28T02:04:17.710-04:00"modern humans picked up archaic admixture as...<i>"modern humans picked up archaic admixture as they spread out of Africa and into Eurasia."</i><br /><br />What current population has the least amount of archaic admixture? Are there any realtively pure 'modern' human populations? Ethiopians?Rev. Rightnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-52014549711670178272012-03-27T08:00:41.596-04:002012-03-27T08:00:41.596-04:00GNXP: The evolution of the human face post says - ...<a href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/03/the-evolution-of-the-human-face/" rel="nofollow">GNXP: The evolution of the human face</a> post says - "some of the individual loci have a strong enough effect that it’s visible by eye!" (It's interesting about pigmentation too.)Seannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-29392031076283396152012-03-25T13:16:07.093-04:002012-03-25T13:16:07.093-04:00Xinzhi Wu says "There is a morphological mosa...Xinzhi Wu says "There is a morphological mosaic between H. s. erectus and H. s. sapiens in China. The existence of common features and the morphological mosaic suggest continuity of human evolution in China."<br /><br />For the features to be similar would that not take more than a few % ? Unless there is some advantage to a certain shape of skull and teeth. It seems unlikely 4% archaic ancestry led to regional archaic features coming though in modern population. If 4% was enough for the archaic features to show through, then why did that happen only in <i>East</i> Eurasia?Seannoreply@blogger.com