tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post724802303633809653..comments2024-03-22T15:55:34.030-04:00Comments on Evo and Proud: On paternal age and IQPeter Frosthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04303172060029254340noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-62419230759761481382013-01-24T13:15:13.248-05:002013-01-24T13:15:13.248-05:00In his recent posts GC says that 'foragers'...In his <a href="http://westhunt.wordpress.com/2013/01/22/nasty-brutish-but-not-that-short/" rel="nofollow">recent posts</a> GC says that 'foragers' have "quite a few guys [who] lived well over 50".<br /><br />In forager society there would be no rich old men who were trading on their family status; hunter gatherers are egalitarian. There, a man needs to be top quality to get a fertile wife at 50; an exceptionally able hunter, or perhaps a war leader. It seems to me that if mutations make a difference to brain functioning the old fathers would have fewer mutations.<br /><br />Germline mutations occur in the testes, and one would assume they would <i>tend</i> to be expressed there. So do black Africans have lower sperm quality? No, they have better at all ages (ie not a result of the germline mutations that increase sperm quality and are <a href="http://pubget.com/paper/22359510/Positive_Selection_for_New_Disease_Mutations_in_the_Human_Germline__Evidence_from_the_Heritable_Cancer_Syndrome_Multiple_Endocrine_Neoplasia_Type_2B" rel="nofollow">selected for in older men</a>). Moreover a man who can get a fertile women when he's 50 years old, in a polygynous mating system (where women do the choosing don't forget) would tend to be in much better shape than his contemporaries; in other words he would have better genetic quality, and fewer mutations reflected in extra social intelligence or charisma. Health too; there is a "clear link between semen quality and the rate of death." <a href="http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletters/Harvard_Mens_Health_Watch/2011/August/semen-quality-and-survival" rel="nofollow">Here.</a> So older men in good enough shape to become fathers would tend to have fewer total mutations. To suggest otherwise is to suggest mutations don't make a difference to the qualities that women look for in men. But navigating a social environment and being a good hunter surely require relatively good brainpower.Seannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-73461383849763375872012-10-21T19:39:13.534-04:002012-10-21T19:39:13.534-04:00jayman is posting nonsense from Richard Lynn's...jayman is posting nonsense from Richard Lynn's made up figures. He tried trolling those maps he had made and spreading mis- information around on various blogs and forums related to Race and IQ to attack Italy/Italians/South Italians.<br /><br />Lynn's figures are garbage and cannot be trusted:<br /><br />Refuting Richard Lynn's Italian "IQ" Study<br /><br />http://italianthro.blogspot.com/2010/09/refuting-richard-lynns-italian-iq-study.html<br /><br />Richard Lynn Further Refuted<br /><br />http://italianthro.blogspot.com/search/label/IQ<br /><br />More Criticism of Richard Lynn<br /><br />http://italianthro.blogspot.com/2011/03/more-criticism-of-richard-lynn.html<br /><br />Another Richard Lynn Refutation<br /><br />http://italianthro.blogspot.com/2011/10/another-richard-lynn-refutation.html<br /><br /><br />Rebuttal to Richard Lynn's Reply <br /><br />http://italianthro.blogspot.com/2012/03/rebuttal-to-richard-lynns-reply.htmlCrimson Guardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08259882884691575025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-39655417933633683752012-10-19T12:51:34.790-04:002012-10-19T12:51:34.790-04:00In his latest Cochran cites better outcomes for l...In his latest Cochran cites better outcomes for low birth weight, preterm birth and stillbirths in white mother and black father couples than black mother white father couples as suggesting magnified maternal-fetal conflict plus genetic load in blacks. A commenter mentions Flynn's German mothers of black children and their surprisingly high IQs. <a href="http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-imprinted-brain/201209/group-differences-in-iq-the-diametric-solution" rel="nofollow">Nemesis did not have long to wait </a>.Seannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-47383383277063700122012-10-17T15:18:09.418-04:002012-10-17T15:18:09.418-04:00Greg Cochran maintains that in the brain there is ...Greg Cochran maintains that in the brain there is <a href="http://westhunt.wordpress.com/2012/10/17/more-to-go-wrong/" rel="nofollow">More to go wrong</a>. So intellectual function is affected while movements, requiring the action of fewer genes, are not. <br /><br />OK, but why did Jensen believe that blacks equaled whites at rote memorization of simple facts and skills. <br /><br />How come mutations only affect conceptual learning? As Jensen said, one reason teachers doubted his figures for black IQ was that the average Black child seemed able to learn things like the names of everyone in their class or school as quick or quicker than whites.<br /><br />Jensen's own experience of testing was that, in person, the black children seemed smarter in some (perhaps superficial but nonetheless real) ways than white children of the same IQ. He retested some for that reason.<br /><br />I just don't see how mutations could drag down conceptual functions, but leave associative learning completely unaffected.Seannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-21639684647739518812012-10-03T17:51:56.050-04:002012-10-03T17:51:56.050-04:00Paternal age in lower temperature climates could a...Paternal age in lower temperature climates could affect the total genetic load?<br /><br />The surviving children in a tropical setting could be different from the children surviving in temperate/cold setting?<br /><br />Cold and germs kill in a different way and they should select for different traits.painlord2k@gmail.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04566115851088917514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-50275239844176067162012-10-02T15:19:51.064-04:002012-10-02T15:19:51.064-04:00Mutation number is not only dependant on age, but ...Mutation number is not only dependant on age, but also on exposure to chemicals or radiation via environment or lifestyle. This means people in industrialized societies have their genes mutating faster than tribes from jungle, because of all the chemicals in food, water, air, as well as higher radiation emmissions from medicine (CT-Scans, X-rays), or telecommunication / broadcasting.<br /><br />There are also regions, like Scandinavia, which have very high natural background level.Tomasz R.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-76550324137093163932012-09-28T13:24:40.810-04:002012-09-28T13:24:40.810-04:00"But what is the average age of fatherhood if..."But what is the average age of fatherhood if a man takes a first wife at 26, a second at 34 and a third at 40?"<br /><br />In the past, the average age of fatherhood was the same in low-polygyny and high-polygyny societies. For one thing, most men were dead by their mid-40s. If their wives were five years younger, there would have been little or no "fertility wastage." The same was true for widowers, who typically remarried much younger women.<br /><br />Anon,<br /><br />Yes, older men in highly polygynous societies are typically "big men" (socially charismatic, domineering, extravagant in giving away gifts and favors). Quite the opposite of old codgers in monogamous societies.Peter Fros_noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-62526485422336809502012-09-28T11:01:54.651-04:002012-09-28T11:01:54.651-04:00No, in high-polygyny societies, men usually marry ...<i>No, in high-polygyny societies, men usually marry around 26. Of course, they often procreate before that age.</i><br /><br />I meant in terms of traits.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-27630498327347770772012-09-28T06:34:26.116-04:002012-09-28T06:34:26.116-04:00"No, in high-polygyny societies, men usually ..."No, in high-polygyny societies, men usually marry around 26."<br /><br />But what is the average age of fatherhood if a man takes a first wife at 26, a second at 34 and a third at 40?<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-45421114750963626882012-09-27T18:16:57.447-04:002012-09-27T18:16:57.447-04:00Sean,
Part of the increase in life expectancy is ...Sean,<br /><br />Part of the increase in life expectancy is due to lower infantile mortality. But there has been a real increase, even if one ignores younger age groups. This is particulary true in sub-Saharan Africa, where colonial pacification put an end to the situation of endemic war.<br /><br />Chris,<br /><br />There are some ways of controlling these variables. One could, for instance, look at IQ within families. Are younger siblings less intelligent on average than older ones? That would be expectable if paternal age influences IQ.<br /><br />Anon,<br /><br />No, in high-polygyny societies, men usually marry around 26. Of course, they often procreate before that age. A Cameroonian classmate told me that many children in polygynous households are fathered by young lovers.<br /><br />Anon,<br /><br />Yes, I'm familiar with Toxoplasma gondii and how it seems to manipulate the behavior of its hosts. I suspect there are many other pathogens like T. gondii. Vaginal yeast, for one.<br /><br />Ben,<br /><br />Yes, there is probably a lot of significant variation in mean IQ within countries. In France, Brittany seems to stand out as a higher IQ region.<br /><br />Jayman,<br /><br />Great! I'll update the map on this blog.Peter Fros_noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-53090785785289404862012-09-27T17:39:49.091-04:002012-09-27T17:39:49.091-04:00Thanks! I've updated the map used on this post...Thanks! I've updated the map used on this post with Lynn's & Vanhanen's 2012 IQ data. See here: <a href="http://jaymans.wordpress.com/2012/06/14/more-on-farming-and-inheritance-systems-part-i-iq/" rel="nofollow"><br />More on Farming and Inheritance Systems – Part I: IQ | JayMan's Blog</a>JayManhttp://jaymans.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-53841143377042589692012-09-26T12:23:46.846-04:002012-09-26T12:23:46.846-04:00The average IQ for an entire country doesn't m...The average IQ for an entire country doesn't make sense anymore.<br />France has well different populations with strong ethnic components: germanic in the north east, celtic in the west, you could still say northman in Normandy, latin in the south, basques, alpin...and now, some areas are 90% composed on african or arabic background, not a single white head can be seen. It's probably not much different in England now, so, are we averaging apple and oranges?<br />My math teacher told me you could never do that.<br />We could we argue, for example that based on the 'average' IQ of the australian continent, the IQ of english migrants has fell 20% by coming to Australia.Ben10noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-64396036062195412062012-09-24T14:44:55.215-04:002012-09-24T14:44:55.215-04:00Thought you might like this:
Common Parasite Link...Thought you might like this:<br /><br />Common Parasite Linked to Personality Changes<br /><br />http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=common-parasite-linked-to-personality-changesAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-11578874162235269512012-09-23T02:18:04.710-04:002012-09-23T02:18:04.710-04:00http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hajnal_line
My wiki-...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hajnal_line<br /><br />My wiki-only reading of the hajnal system is that the average age for men was 26 whereas the average age in the polygynous cultures seems to be higher so far?<br /><br />I'd have thought a better test of the idea would be (from the wiki):<br /><br />"to the east of the line and in the Mediterranean and select pockets of Northwestern Europe, early marriage was the norm and high fertility was countered by high mortality"<br /><br />If paternal age was the *only* factor then the non-hajnal parts of Europe should historically have had the higher IQs (and if the hajnal system started at some point then the pre-hajnal population in the same regions should have been smarter before it began).<br /><br />I don't know if the genetic load idea is correct or partially correct but if it is then it seems that might provide a possible explanation. If different marriage systems provide different levels of genetic load shedding then that will have an effect on average IQ also.<br /><br />If so the cumulative effect would be the combination of the load shedding effect and the paternal age effect.<br /><br />If polygynous marriage has a low genetic load shedding ability then the two negative effects would be combined.<br /><br />Even if polygynous marriage is better at genetic load shedding in particular environments it might not or only partially outweigh the extra load from the higher paternal age.<br /><br />Or in other words<br /><br />Total load = additional load per generation minus load shed per generation.<br /><br />(The thing i'm particularly curious about in this regard is if it effects the mutational clocks people use to estimate the dates of prehistoric events.)<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-28609985305238171752012-09-22T14:33:42.903-04:002012-09-22T14:33:42.903-04:00Presumably there would be differences between olde...Presumably there would be differences between older fathers in a monogamous environment versus older fathers in a polygynous one.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-6323111831877750612012-09-22T14:20:54.432-04:002012-09-22T14:20:54.432-04:00Disentangling the many variables at work here seem...Disentangling the many variables at work here seems impossible given the paucity of data. For example, older fathers can provide better nutrition for their children. Different cultures have different selective forces at work for males, implying different intelligence levels for fathers in different cultures. Polygyny could well be correlated or anticorrelated with lots of other variables that could influence intelligence. <br /><br />Extracting a signal from all this noise seems impossible just yet.Chris Crawfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14926445098765433310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-3017637290379075352012-09-22T11:27:31.043-04:002012-09-22T11:27:31.043-04:00Life expectancy of an adult is very different to t...Life expectancy of an adult is very different to that at birth which is a much lower figure, and more often quoted. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy#Life_expectancy_variation_over_time" rel="nofollow">Life Expectancy at Older Age</a>. Male polygynists would not have the problem of their wives being too old while they were still fertile. So I still think GC has made a very good case that there will be more germline mutations in polygynous societies. CH Waddington said mutations get canalized out of expression in normal circumstances. Looking at Black Aficans they don't look like they are loaded with mutations, not ones that are being expressed anyway. <br /><br />RE the argument that "Because intelligence requires the correct functioning of large numbers of interacting genes, it is more sensitive to random mutations". People with intellectual handicaps invariably move oddly. Even schizophrenics have a staggering walk.Seannoreply@blogger.com