tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post92810256955474856..comments2024-03-22T15:55:34.030-04:00Comments on Evo and Proud: Making the big time ... elsewherePeter Frosthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04303172060029254340noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-10055454386044586352014-10-11T10:30:00.838-04:002014-10-11T10:30:00.838-04:00Unfortunately, the archaeological record is very s...Unfortunately, the archaeological record is very spotty in West Africa (and sub-Saharan Africa in general). I suspect that the Iwo Eleru people survived until very recent times, perhaps into the Holocene. There are legends in West Africa of an earlier people (who are said to have been lighter-skinned).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-38639964600960155192014-10-09T13:03:05.174-04:002014-10-09T13:03:05.174-04:00If the Iwo Eleru people contibuted 13 percent of t...If the Iwo Eleru people contibuted 13 percent of the modern West African gene pool, where were the people who contributed the other seven-eights of it located 16,000 years ago? And when did they come into tropical West Africa and absorb their predecessors? Can genetics and/or fossil finds elsewhere on the African continent provide clues? I know Hammer et. al. were able to estimate 35,000 BP for the 2% absorption of the very archaic lineage. But what about these quasi/almost-modern folks?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-5433960670162634882014-10-09T04:40:28.697-04:002014-10-09T04:40:28.697-04:00"With that "out of the tropics" pop..."With that "out of the tropics" population getting mostly squished..."<br /><br />by that i mean the distinctively African segment of the "out of the tropics" population.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-12966346227161874142014-10-09T00:07:37.679-04:002014-10-09T00:07:37.679-04:00@PF
"Except that the demographic expansion b...@PF<br /><br />"Except that the demographic expansion began in Africa. This wasn't a neutral trait inside Africa. It was already having adaptive consequences."<br /><br />Yes, I didn't state it fully. I think it will turn out that "out of the tropics" was the big step and out of Africa relatively minor in comparison.<br /><br />(With that "out of the tropics" population getting mostly squished in the interim by a mixture of back migration and Bantu expansion.)<br /><br />Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13398462488549380796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-6236571665002968552014-10-08T15:42:54.365-04:002014-10-08T15:42:54.365-04:00Anon,
If there had been an infertility barrier be...Anon,<br /><br />If there had been an infertility barrier between moderns and archaics, it must have been partial at best. We see Neadnerthal admixture in modern Eurasians.<br /><br />Anon,<br /><br />According to Watson et al. (1997), about 13% of the sub-Saharan gene pool comes from a demic expansion about 111,000 years ago that corresponds to the entry of Skhul-Qafzeh hominins into the Middle East. Given the similarities between Iwo Eleru and Skhul-Qafzeh, I suspect that this 13% comes from archaic humans like those at Iwo Eleru.<br /><br />So sub-Saharan Africans have a higher level of archaic admixture than do Eurasians, but most of this admixture seems to have come from people who were on the threshold of modernity.<br /><br />Anon,<br /><br />Except that the demographic expansion began in Africa. This wasn't a neutral trait inside Africa. It was already having adaptive consequences.<br /><br />Luke Lea,<br /><br />It came to me during my last rewrite of that post. I was trying to sum up my main idea in as few words as possible.<br /><br />Dumb,<br /><br />Calling people you don't like is intellectual laziness. It eliminates the effort of trying to come up with a coherent counter-argument.Peter Fros_noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-56051960369872667712014-10-07T16:23:10.957-04:002014-10-07T16:23:10.957-04:00Dumbnonymous said...
"The survival of ar... Dumbnonymous said...<br /><br /> "The survival of archaic traits as late as 16,000 years ago in West Africa raises the obvious question of to what extent the Iwo Eleru population contributed to ancestry of today's West Africans. Might Eurasian back-migration have played a part in subsequent changes?"<br /><br />What Eurasian back-migration?<br /> <br />Dumbnonymous said...<br />"The fact the Y-DNA haplogroup E is so prevalent among Bantu-speaking peoples, and that an R1b variant can be found at high levels in parts of Cameroon, suggests that the answer is yes."<br /><br />Y-DNA HG E clearly arose in Africa. All the diversity and frequency points to Africa and nowhere else. <br /><br />Dumbnonymous said... <br />"Back in the 1960s, Carleton Coon, in "The Living Races of Man," suggested that modern black Africans were morphologically intermediate between Pygmies and Mediterranean populations. He further theorized that African populations could be arranged in a spectrum from those who derived most of their ancestry from Eurasians (like Egyptians and Berbers)to those descended mostly from the original inhabitants (Pygmies and Bushmen), with groups like Ethiopians, Nilo-Saharans, and Bantus falling at various points in between."<br /><br />Carlteon Coon was mostly a hack that knew nothing of genetics. also you don't know much about genetics either. <br />1. Central African pygmies aren't that old nor are they the original inhabitants of Africa.<br />2. Nilotic Nilo-Saharans actually have more Y-DNA HG A & B as well as Mt-DNA HG L0, L1 and L2 than both Pygmies and Khoisan yet Nilotes have more Eurasian affinity. <br /><br />Dumbnonymous said... <br />"Coon was wrong about a lot of things, but this idea may have been one of his more prescient insights."<br /><br />Nope! He was a hack! Bite menoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-6342719538628390632014-10-05T06:16:30.610-04:002014-10-05T06:16:30.610-04:00Another factor that likely helped pre sapiens surv...Another factor that likely helped pre sapiens survive quite late in certain parts of Africa is tropical diseases. New comers would be less adapted to the local diseases. And a disease heavy environment selects more for fast breeding R traits than K traits.Stephenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02291622298961270279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-80082095622341938762014-10-05T00:31:50.286-04:002014-10-05T00:31:50.286-04:00"Success is fragile, but so is failure.
&quo..."Success is fragile, but so is failure.<br /> "<br /><br />I'll remember that.Luke Leahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11290760894780619646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-46761460955592160072014-10-04T16:45:28.594-04:002014-10-04T16:45:28.594-04:00If the tropics are/were a particularly harsh selec...If the tropics are/were a particularly harsh selective environment but at the same time generate a lot of genetic mutation then Africans would end up with increasing amounts of neutral dna<br /><br />But dna that is neutral inside the region where it develops isn't necessarily neutral outside that area.<br /><br />So you could imagine a situation where Africans pick up more and more neutral dna over time then every interstitial some move out of Africa and die out with the next ice age until eventually one of those bits of neutral junk dna (aka spare part dna) turns out to be very beneficial *outside* the tropics allowing them to survive the next cold phase.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-61702897871778064062014-10-04T13:34:11.253-04:002014-10-04T13:34:11.253-04:00The survival of archaic traits as late as 16,000 y...The survival of archaic traits as late as 16,000 years ago in West Africa raises the obvious question of to what extent the Iwo Eleru population contributed to ancestry of today's West Africans. Might Eurasian back-migration have played a part in subsequent changes?<br /><br />The fact the Y-DNA haplogroup E is so prevalent among Bantu-speaking peoples, and that an R1b variant can be found at high levels in parts of Cameroon, suggests that the answer is yes.<br /><br />Back in the 1960s, Carleton Coon, in "The Living Races of Man," suggested that modern black Africans were morphologically intermediate between Pygmies and Mediterranean populations. He further theorized that African populations could be arranged in a spectrum from those who derived most of their ancestry from Eurasians (like Egyptians and Berbers)to those descended mostly from the original inhabitants (Pygmies and Bushmen), with groups like Ethiopians, Nilo-Saharans, and Bantus falling at various points in between.<br /><br />Coon was wrong about a lot of things, but this idea may have been one of his more prescient insights. <br /><br /> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3734925856292601239.post-4584328753988728902014-10-04T11:29:42.598-04:002014-10-04T11:29:42.598-04:00What about the infertility barrier?What about the infertility barrier?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com